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Edited: Aug 02, 2021

Lead shoulder down on backswing, lead shoulder up on downswing

Just wanted to share a different feel for the downswing that has finally given me the proper downswing motions.

For me, everything else hasn't worked. I have either been overly sidebending or my shoulders have started rotating too early.

Then it came to my mind that what if all my swing thoughts are focused only on the lead shoulder. So on the backswing i tilt and get my lead shoulder down. Then, instead of thinking to sidebend to the trail side and getting my trail shoulder down, i think moving my lead shoulder up on the downswing. This finally gives me that proper sidebend and hips moving forward and in to out swing path.

Hope this might help someone else struggling with the downswing, for me it was the key feeling to get it all right finally :)

19 comments

19 Comments

Tom Saguto

Jun 09, 2022

Excellent playing, @Gerry_Lager!! Sounds to me like you've got a solid grasp of the motion and that it's all coming together nicely. Don't be afraid to "unleash" a few during your range sessions. Just keep the proper sequencing that you have established and go after it a little harder without changing anything. In other words, give it some Wrath of Gerry! Build in some trust with it so you can really let it fly out on the course when appropriate.

You've earned a SG Golden Ball in recognition of your great work!

Gerry_Lager

Jun 09, 2022

@Russell Hogue, PhD getting off the tee box a bit better. Actually had my best 9 in league last night with a 2+ 38. 7 pars and 2 bogies. Some questioned my 8 handicap :) . I've been using the 'Hogan Elbow' and concentrating on sliding the hips to start the downswing while keeping my head behind the ball (for driver) . If think 'stay behind the ball' that thought prevents my shoulders from lunging forward and thus the lead shoulder goes up and not towards the target. Not sure if @Tom Saguto mentions this but if you do all the right motions for driver your attack angle is so much better and reduces backspin, backspin is a huge distance killer. KEEP YOUR HEAD STILL AND BEHIND THE BALL. Also, imperative that you get that lead shoulder down to the ball. It sets your hands deep enough in the back swing. I found If I don't make a full turn I'm unable to come in-to-out and results in a big pull hook. Sorry if I'm all over the place on this. I could go on forever. I'm fascinated by this stuff.

So, I'm much happier getting of the tee box. In my simulator if I don't hold back really unleash it I could get out there 250+. I haven't taken that 'unleashing' to the course yet for I need to do that with a bit more accuracy. Lots of work to do before the boys outing in September. I think they're going to be a bit surprised by the improvement :)

Gerry_Lager

Mar 02, 2022

@Russell Hogue, PhD I also am practicing with this swing thought. I viewed myself in the mirror. It's amazing how many little moves we can think of that will cause a chain reaction for the rest of the swing. When i looked in the mirror and focused on lead should up and then my hips and lower body when towards the target. I had problems with steepness in my driver. when viewing this thought I notice the club head lowering and coming in at a better angle of attack.

Russell Hogue, PhD

Jun 08, 2022

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Replying to

@Gerry_Lager any updates? Since this thread, I too have been focusing on using my lead shoulder as the freewheel center of my swing. As long as the shoulder keeps moving then the club shaft doesn’t release fully until just before the lead shoulder. When the lead shoulder stops, or moves laterally instead of rotating, the clubhead has momentum and passes the lead hand too early. Wondering what you have found?

Russell Hogue, PhD

Mar 02, 2022

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I thought of your post when playing last week…what I figured out was that it’s the continued rotation of the front shoulder that brings the club into alignment with the lead arm at impact. In other words, if the shoulder stalls, the arms speed past and often cause a flip, but certainly cause a breakdown of the flying wedge. Said another way, shoulder down, shoulder up! Kudos to a great tip @Jari Hissa Btw- that swing thought also allowed me to send some 300 yard drives down the pipe…so there’s that too. :)

1759adam

Sep 05, 2021

Hi Tom, and all.

This seems to touch on what I've been working on / thinking about. I've been working on a couple of drills that Tom prescribed and I now seem to be able to delay my trail arm unhinging for a bit longer in the downswing, still not quite keeping my angle through impact, but feels like it will come. Then I realised that my basics had got a bit sloppy, so I went back and watched first segments of Fast Track again. Got to the pointing lead shoulder at the ball segment, and it clicked with what I'd been thinking about. If lead shoulder points at ball at top of backswing, then if I drive my Trail Shoulder through the ball at impact, then this should help sequencing and allow me to get into the correct shape? Will try out at the range tomorrow.

tomhayes188

Jul 25, 2022

Replying to

Thanks Tom. I "discovered" this idea when I followed your "water bucket/medicine ball" concept before the practice swing. When I just swung my hands "trying to keep the water in the bucket" I got a full tilt/turn and I would see my left knee at the top of my back swing. With the club in hand I would not get quite that deep for some reason. Now I make sure I see my left knee at the top of my practice swing/backswing and I think that is lining up a consistent "point of contact" (with the ball 1 clubface in from left heel - excluding driver which I put at the heel for the time being). And yes, I was referring to "lagshot 7 iron" (plus hangar) I bought from your store link on the site. Another 2 points I have found helpful - in the S&T DVDs Andy or Mike briefly said 'balls of your feet' in one segment. I used that as a point of reference at address to make sure my head is down over the ball enough. If you look at Charlie Wi, you can never see his face (only visor). To get head that low you are almost on the balls of your feet. The final thing I have been doing to get the right distance from the ball from my club pro (who is S&T) is at address, drop the right hand and see if it falls EVEN with left hand on the club. If it falls too far back or forward you can adjust your distance from ball. I think Tom (you) said on one of his videos that the biggest issue for his students is either not tilting/turning left shoulder enough. These are some ideas I have found helpful in my short journey. Long way to go. Grew up as a golf caddie, but did not play much. 25 years later I picked up sticks for first time this year. I met a guy at my club who is 55 and started playing 3yrs ago. He is now a 6 handicap. Hearing that was a game changer/inspiration and I have been non-stop for last 10 weeks learning, videoing and adjusting. I always thought if you didn't become decent when you were young, you were toast, not true! I shot a 46 for 9 this weekend (with 4 3 puts) and a 45 last Wednesday with friends at the club. My goal is mid-80's by the end of my first season (at least a couple of times), but I know there will be "fits and starts" along the way.

Tom Saguto

Jul 25, 2022

Replying to

Awesome stuff, @tomhayes188!!

I made a suggestion in the previous reply about posting this in a "new thread". By that I meant that this particular comment thread is nearly a year old and has lost some traction as a result. Can you copy what you just posted here and simply paste it into a brand new post that you would create from the forum's home screen? You can put it in either the Backswing Help or General Discussions category. It will draw more attention there, plus I could then "pin" your post to the top of the list to capture more views.

Seems like your swing is on a good track, and you are obviously committed to the improvement process. That's an excellent recipe for success!

tomhayes188

Jul 25, 2022

Replying to

Sure, thanks Tom!

Gerry_Lager

Aug 29, 2021

@Tom Saguto... Played this weekend still need work off the tee. Researched downswings and found this tip.... I like the thought, would this also be a good thing to practice with driver?

Tom Saguto

Aug 31, 2021

Replying to

@Gerry_Lager - Which tip are you referring to?

Gerry_Lager

Aug 31, 2021

Replying to

@Tom Saguto hey Tom..the tip @Jari Hissa posted that started this thread. I've been working on my driver because I can't get off the tee. stopping rotation and coming over the top. I have since decided to do the drills you mentioned in YT videos with Ben Hogan. I really like that feel and seems easy to me. This is good stuff

Tom Saguto

Sep 01, 2021

Replying to

@Gerry_Lager - It is indeed necessary to build in our own unique feels, and much of that involves trial and error. However, this is the process we must undergo in order to ingrain a swing that we can ultimately trust to perform consistently under the pressure of play.

Nice work!!

Tom Saguto

Aug 02, 2021

Thanks for sharing, @Jari Hissa!!

I'll go ahead and pin your post to draw more attention to it.

Nice job figuring out and simplifying what works best for you!

Tom

Jari Hissa

Aug 03, 2021

Replying to

@Tom Saguto Thanks Tom

It also provides a good visual. When the lead shoulder is down and you start the downswing, if the shoulder moves up you are moving laterally, if it moves back you are rotating at the start

Tom Saguto

Aug 03, 2021

Replying to

@Jari Hissa Yes indeed. Good call!!