Hello All!
I’ve been a member for about a month now. Just wanted to make an introduction because I’ve been experiencing some serious frustrations lately. This is a long post, so I apologize in advance but I wanted to be as articulate as possible about my journey to see if there are any Saguto veterans out there who have experienced similar issues and how they overcame them.
- I’m a younger man; aged 31 with a slim, athletic build. This is only relevant because I thought I was athletic (i.e. have played a lot of sports in my life). Golf is a humbling sport that I’m not good at.
- I was always a left-hand player in sports (threw, batted, shot, etc.) until I started playing golf in middle school. Since I started, I have always played right-handed. I played through high school, took a 7-year hiatus, tried picking it up 6-7 years ago, put it down again, and now I’ve been playing again for about 2 years. I have been following Tom on YT for about 6 months and have been a member for about a month.
- When I first became a member, I had immediate success. Within a week, I shot the best 9 holes ever: a 6 over 43. I was previously shooting anywhere from 95-100 for 18 holes.
- I was striking the ball well with my irons, and the shot-shape was just as Tom said it would be: a push-draw. It was awesome. My driver was really coming along and I was routinely hitting little draws down the middle of the fairway, 250+. I was probably hitting 80-90% fairways in regulation and even if I didn’t land in the fairway, I at least had a playable lie.
- Now for the bad: it was downhill from there. It first started with my irons. My push-draws started turning into low hooks and pulls. Many shots were thin and if I made good contact and produced a high shot, it was still going way left. My driver was actually fine during this time. It was the best club in my bag, but then like the irons, it started going downhill as well and I started duck-hooking it off the tee. Even with all of this, my score wasn’t completely falling apart. I was mostly scraping by with shooting anywhere between a 46-48 for 9 holes. By this time, I had gone through all of the driver swing guide, almost all of the complete swing guide, and many of the common swing problems guide. Once I saw I was taking a step back, I started trying to go back through some sections where I was weak.
- Now, I’m on vacation. I made tee times to play golf three times this week. The first day I played, I shot a 90. I actually felt good with that score because I knew if I had done a few things better (driver and putting), I would have shot in the 80s. I re-watched the driver section to try and get the driver figured out again, and started back looking at the backswing sections again, especially to get the shoulder down and understand what that’s all about (admittedly, I still don’t).
- Today, I played for the second time. I tried taking some things I had watched and brushed up on in the video sections that I mentioned above to the range before playing and really felt pretty good. I was hitting my irons good and while my driver wasn’t stellar, it seemed playable. This was all on the range.
- When I went to play, the first hole went pretty good. I was on the green in 3 on a par 5, but three-putted for bogey (LOL). It all fell apart from there. I really had the worst game I had played in probably at least six months. I shot a 51 on the front 9 while not hitting a playable drive off the tee except maybe twice. I had to hit two balls off the tee at least 6 or 7 times because the first ball was in the woods, water, etc. For whatever reason, I was slicing off the tee really badly after hitting hooks the first day I played. I was conversely pulling and hooking my irons. It was maddening. On the back 9, I started ok and even made a birdie on 12 or 13, but it all fell apart again. By the 16th hole, I stopped keeping score.
Like I said before, I apologize for the length of this post. Tom is the second online instructor I have tried over the past year. The first guy was a single-plane swing instructor as well, and he also utilized the V1 golf app for virtual lessons. After trying his program for four months and sending him several videos, I realized he wasn’t able to help me because it got to the point where he started telling me, “I can’t tell what you’re doing wrong because your swing looks good” (this is a paraphrase, but he said my swing did look correct). Tom’s program seems way better, and I know it has to work. However, my fear is this is another program where it’s not the program that’s the problem, it’s me. I’m afraid I won’t “get it” like I didn’t get the last program.
I’m not really looking for a pep-talk or encouragement to stick with it, but I’m just wondering if there’s anyone out there who has had a similar journey and if so, how have you progressed in this program? Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
My advice is , don't try everything in chapter 2 all at once. Break each lesson down slowly so you get it in grained . It's impossible to think about all the key steps within 2-3 seconds. A lot of the simpler thoughts/positions sould be automatic.
For me, putting my head on a wall and turning my shoulders down takes care of 1/2 the battle. Ingrain this feeling.
Tom calls the " turning the lead shoulder down at the ball" the best golf tip ever. It's true.
You should only ever hit 3/4 swings until your 8 out of 10 crispy. (IMO)
If you post videos of yourself to us or "The Colonel", you will advance way faster.
Thanks @Tom Saguto ! I've read enough of the comments here to know that I'll be spending time in Chapter 2 for a while. Once I've spent enough time in the program to have a workable "new" swing, I'll set up a V1 analysis to get your take on things. Appreciate the support and I'll post as things progress. Thanks again.
Hello: just joined a few days ago and am really enjoying the program. By way of background, I played a lot in my youth but never got particularly good (14 handicap range). After high school, I played less and less each year: college, marriage, children, etc. I'm sure many here know how it goes. The past few years, I only got out a handful of times. Now in midlife (more like sliding into 3rd), I'd really like to straighten out any bad habits so I can start enjoying the game again.
Considering how infrequently I've played, I've been reasonably happy with my swing but it is far from dependable. I can shoot in the 80's or 100 - never knew what to expect on any given day - which is, of course, frustrating.
I've always had a short 3/4 backswing with a fast downswing. I'm not a big guy (5'8" or so, 150 pounds) but somehow I hit the ball fairly long. I've always suspected that my short backswing / fast follow through was the source of my poor consistency and did a search for "short backswing" on YouTube. This led me to one of @Tom Saguto 's videos saying that a short backswing can be a benefit, and I was intrigued. This led me to watch about 20 more of Tom's videos and all the talk of "tilting" -which I didn't think I was doing (at least not knowingly) -convinced me to sign up.
I've filmed my swing several times prior to joining and, having viewed them several times with this new information - I'm wondering if my somewhat unorthodox swing is actually pretty close to the S&T method espoused by Tom. I already leaned forward at address, good shoulder / hip turn, and even "some" tilt, etc. If it is, it was by accident because I haven't paid enough attention to have even heard of S&T until about a week ago.
That said, even if my swing is somewhat close, I don't expect the process to be easy. My early adventures in tweaking my swing have been difficult. Lot's of "ghosts of swings past" lingering about. It's early, but I'm so impressed by the videos and this community's enthusiasm for Tom and his lessons that I will persevere. Not yet frustrated but reserve the the right to be so in the future.
I totally understand your frustration but don’t worry. The system does work and it is you. But hold on, don’t get upset because that’s a good thing. That’s what Tom calls “Ghosts of the swings past” coming back to haunt you. That just means your implementing the system. My own personal experience briefly summed up is this: I was so bad I quit six times over the past 20 years. Started Saguto golf last year shooting in the high one hundred teens, and two weeks ago I shot 93. I’m right handed but play golf lefty. I’m a big guy but definitely not athletic. This type of thing your going through is natural because if you’re not used to swinging this way, you’re having to retrain the feel of it and you can’t trust the way it feels yet. The thing we’ve all learned early on is “Feel isn’t real”. Videoing yourself is going to be the most crucial tool to implement in this process. Can’t tell you how many times this past year I’ve pured the ball one day and then hit straight pulls 45° off target or straight out duck hooked it out of bounds the next. The swing “felt” fine but video would then show my ball position had creeped up or I had started flipping again, or I wasn’t using my hips right. The great thing is after a while you’ll get to understand and identify key components of S&T and be so familiar with your own swing, you’ll be able to look at a video of it and instantly tell what the problem is (most of the time anyway) for those other times, there’s Tom himself always ready for a V1 session and the folks on here are always helpful sharing their own experiences in whatever’s going on. Don’t worry, you’ll get it, just be be patient and work it. It will come together for you. In the meantime we’re all here to help however we can.
This has been my experience thus far and I’ve been working on this for a year now. I have learned so much about the golf swing. I can’t tell you how much I have learned from Tom’s classes and videos. And the more I learn the more I see what I was missing before. My last golf outing which was over a month ago I played the front 9 and was in the 40s. I was leading – never happens. (Over 100 is typical for my game for 18 holes) Then on the back 9 it fell apart. On the 18th hole I believed at the time I had figured out what went wrong and would have had a par on the hole had I not missed a 3 foot putt. But now that I’ve been working on my swing I look back on that day and I see where it fell apart and why. Quite frankly the front 9 were a bit lucky. The more I do this the more I see that I have not been doing the swing properly and I feel I keep progressing towards what the swing really is. Last week on the driving range I was hitting 5 iron after 5 iron consistently, crispy, and most importantly easily. This swing feels so easy when it’s done correctly. It is effortless. I could not say that a few months ago. That is a more recent feeling for the past couple of months. Then I duffed 3 shots in a row on the range and I was like what the heck. I stopped, reassessed, and then started to hit clean shots again. Simple things can creep in easily that mess the swing up while still in the learning process. (the ghosts of swings past I think is the catch phrase – those evil things!!) 😊
In my opinion to play very well in the first few weeks of Tom’s courses is a bit of luck. Some people might be able to do that. Some people might be able to pick this up in a few months and some have and are doing great. Others, like me, are taking a lot longer to learn this and it is a process. And I get incredibly frustrated at times. If I had given up 6 months ago and said the system doesn’t work I would have been wrong. I wasn’t doing it – period. I can so see that now. It’s a process, I’m still working through it and I am learning so much. One day, and hopefully soon, I hope to post my best game ever on this board. And then post a better game followed by another and then another.
Before I started Tom’s classes if I played well on the golf course it was blind luck. I couldn’t tell you what I did to play well. Then I’d go out and play again and I couldn’t repeat what I did the previous time and it was a disaster. Now, I’m starting to be able to assess what I’m doing wrong. Now, when I have good shots I can tell you why and when the shots aren’t so good I can usually figure out what it is and fix it. Never before could I do that.
This is my experience up until now from someone who isn’t quite there, yet. Just the knowledge alone has been worth it. My GF and I were at a local golf shop that had a driving range. We went out there just to check it out and I watched one guy practice his swing before he hit the ball. I said, “Watch, he’s going to slice it.” He hit the ball and it sliced. I could never see things like that before in anyone’s swing. Now, I know a little more than I used to. 😊
I've stayed on chapter 2 and the 2.8 swing for over 6 months. I'm seeing it improve my game still. My iron distances have really shot up over the last few weeks! I have decided I'm not going to move on until my game starts to even out. I'm seeing a really great round then a step back... so If I can get me score and striking to gain some decent consistency, then I'll move on. I keep thinking, if I can hit shots like I'm seeing now, I can only imagine what might be possible when I start adding the power boosters!
Thanks for all the responses. I will be going back through Chapter 2 and spending time on drill 2.8 in the same chapter.
One thing comes to mind in reading your post. (this happened for me). I started seeing improvement and, instead of continuing with the swing that brought me success, I tried "adding power." At least that is what I thought I was doing. In reality, I was just reverting back to my old swing and trying to kill the ball... What I've learned recently is, patience and controlled moderation have been my friends. No more trying to kill the ball. Sure, there's maybe, stepping on it a LITTLE and laying off but, no trying to crush it. It only leads back to the old swing that brought me sorrow and regret...
Have you stopped videoing yourself thinking you "got it?" That is the the thought of death to your new swing. Once you let your guard down those demons creep right back in, under the radar!
Here is what I know, a focused practice, sometime before a round usually brings a lower score and better ball striking on the course. Then letting down my guard because I think "I finally have it" brings higher scores and disappointing ball striking. It seems to be imperative that you keep up the practice that engrains this swing. In the end this is a new swing and your fighting something way older and way more set in your muscle memory. At least that is how I'm seeing it. My best guess is that I can never assume "I've got it." I'm only as good as my last shot! LOL
Danny
@TJ Johnson - I just pinned your post to encourage others to comment as I'm sure there are some experiences to be shared.
Obviously, based on your early results the potential is there (not a "pep talk"; just a fact...😎). While contributions from other members will certainly be of more value, here are my recommendations for what they are worth:
1) You may have seen me mention this here several times before, but it's always worth repeating: One of the many great things about this swing is that you can achieve solid ball striking even at the most basic levels. This is why I oftentimes will refer students back to Chapter 2 of the Golf Swing Simplified course when they experience a hiccup or perceived setback. That chapter reinforces the body motions and the weight-forward component, and it culminates with what I call "The Best Golf Swing Practice Drill of All Time". Master that drill, and you even use the partially abbreviated swing it provides on the course and play quite well with it as it will provide plenty of distance. (It actually is the full swing minus just a couple of power accumulators.) Once you have that down, you should be back on track.
2) The V1 Swing Video Analysis is an effective and inexpensive service that I highly recommend to everyone in the school. I liken it to bringing your swing into the shop for a tune-up or minor repair. Scheduling one on a quarterly basis for preventive maintenance will do wonders for keeping things humming along nicely, and it's also a great tool for pinpointing and resolving any issues that arise. (And no - I won't simply tell you that it "looks good" if you make me aware of the issues you are experiencing.) The process involves downloading the free V1 app and then submitting two videos to me through the app - one down-the-line (captured from your stance line, not the target line) and the other face-on. You'll find more information about the V1 Analysis halfway down this page on the Saguto.Golf site.
3) There is plenty of content in the Fixing Common Swing Problems and the Ball Flight Fixes sections of the school that may be of benefit to you.
4) Two books: The Stack and Tilt Swing by Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett makes for an excellent supplemental reference guide to compliment the online school, and Fearless Golf: Conquering the Mental Game by Dr. Gio Valiante has helped a number of SG members with their on-course game (and brain) management.
Tom