Hi @Tom Saguto I have found that when I am able to keep the club head behind me like you are in the pic that is attached, it's very easy to shallow. I do this perfectly on my practice swing but often when I'm hitting the ball, the clubhead travels to the right (see the red arrow), making the swallowing move much harder to achieve. Is there a drill to fix this or a tip perhaps? Thank you!
@Russell Hogue, PhD Hi Russel, I was wondering if you had any suggestions - I can pretty easily work the path we discussed but i am hitting a ton of blocks and my grip is very strong, any drills or tips for closing the face?
I appreciate any cents! What would you change?
After watching the 80 yard shot video, to me Kevin leads the downswing with a lateral, or horizontal left shoulder movement which throws the club outside target line. Just my 2 cents, 5 cents now with inflation. LOL.
Awesome work, Kevin & Coach Hogue!!
lol, well thank you , sir! 🤠
Awesome, thanks so much for help- I’m blown away by the level of detail, this is just fantastic stuff!!!
Russell, so I went to the gym this am and hit the indoor range- (no time for outdoors as we have to drive 75 miles for my son's 17u baseball tournament) hopefully a better schedule tomorrow will allow me to get outside. Anyway, the 10 degree swings still look steep, 30 degree looks much better, and 45- pretty darn shallow. I will continue to pound this drill but for on course strategy, would you suggest I focus on 45 degrees to the right for the time being?
Pretty much straight but to the right. Usually well struck. Could be a fairway over. 😬
Hey Russel,
Thanks for the amazing breakdown and instructions! I did just get off the course ( my God it's hot) and my miss is most definitely a pull, did manage to shoot 85 so wasn't a total loss but my main issue is driver- either pull hook or block. I will work on the above tomorrow at an outdoor range.
Thanks!
Kevin
I assumed from club face position you were moving right to left. The steep path is a problem then because that will make you prone to pulls, fats, thins, and most likely toe misses. To fix, you have to actually get your swing moving further right (not just feel like it). In order to swing further right, from the top of your swing the hands need to work straight down, not down and out toward the ball. Depending on ball position, you may need to move the ball back slightly to facilitate. You are correct that there is a discrepancy between what you are actually doing and what you feel like you are doing. There is a reprogramming process your brain will have to experience to trust that swinging 30 degrees right is what a baby draw feels like. I would start with your feet lined up parallel left to a given target. Place three intermediate targets in front of you (three golf balls) about 3-4 feet… The first is 10 degrees right of the target. Next is 30 degrees right of target. Final is 45 degrees right of target. Your objective is to simply take the club back to a position that allows you to release over the intermediate target…one after the next. Video each swing. Swing and hit ball over ball 1, swing hit ball over ball 2. Swing hit ball over ball 3. You should notice that if you simply place the club to the top of the swing in a position that will let your arms swing down and release over each ball as your intermediate target moves further right, your backswing position changes slightly to accommodate. But more importantly, to release the club to each intermediate target your body motion and arm swing will change to matchup. Those changes will result in club getting shallower as swing path moves further to the right. The question is, where does your release path need to be to make the club show up where it’s supposed to be? Dissecting trail arm… Word of caution, when changing your swing path don’t get worried about where the ball is going. The next click of this fix is to adjust grip to make ball flight be what you want. Stage 1. Fix swing path. Stage 2. Fix grip or release to make curvature match desired shot. For any given swing path. Ball 1. Ball 2. Ball 3, if your ball-flight starts left and goes left, the club face was aiming left of target. If the face is right of swing path, ball will start right and go right. The objective is simple, make your grip slightly stronger (turning left hand clockwise on grip), or weaker (turn left hand counter clockwise)…until the desired ball flight is achieved for a given swing path. BTW this is a really fun exercise to gain control on how much you are bending the ball.
Hi Russel,
Thanks for the detailed analysis! To answer your questions, that was probably a 5 iron and I do typically move the ball right to left. I do not have a way to see shot shape but there is enough room at this indoor range at my fitness club to have a pretty decent idea. I'm in the market for a R10 asap.
Am I correct in that you are saying I need to feel like I'm swinging more in to out (like the alignment stick) to reduce the steepness? Trying to get the shaft on my downswing to the trail forearm plane is my goal and has proven to be hard!
Thanks again for your extremely helpful evaluation!
Image of iron swing path into ball. Illustrates what I am talking about on downswing path.
Not bad at all. Couple questions: 1. What club were you hitting? 2. What is your typical shot shape? 3. Did you have a way to see the shot shape on from the swing on video? There is nothing wrong with your backswing position at the top. If you want to nitpick, you have a bit of arm runaway, meaning when your shoulder stops turning, your arms should stop swinging up. Your shoulders stop and your arms continue to rise a bit. Not bad. Ultimately, that means you reach the same position as @Tom Saguto but because you are swinging further along the circle, from down the line there is an appearance that your club moves outward. It doesn’t. This is very specifically a challenge with 2d images. My bigger concern would be getting steep on downswing (ironically, if you are trying to shorten your swing to match Tom’s and if that’s unnatural for you it would make sense that you are getting steep…the across the line appearance on backswing is also something that helps shallow on downswing). Here’s a picture of your backswing, top of backswing (when shoulder stops), and downswing. Ideally you would want to see the shaft on your downswing get to your trail forearm plane. That being said, it depends on where you are swinging in this video (were you hitting a fade or a draw). For your swing, I think it looks great. I would say that to cleanup the downswing, it’s nothing to do with your swing and EVERYTHING to do with intent. If you had an alignment rod like the one in the last picture and you see your intended swing path as the outside rod, you would automatically shallow your downswing to release on that target. Great move my man.
video was in slow mo but after editing and shrinking it's in regular speed, sorry.
Sure, thanks.
@kevin can you post a video? There are a million reasons the club may appear to move in the direction you indicated. Some are bad. Some aren’t.