I have reached a conclusion that swing sequencing driven by lower body initiated downswing, or from the ground up, is my final frontier. I have added 40 yards to the driver when my lower body initiates the downswing. In fact just yesterday I hit a 285 yard drive when my "normal" distance three months ago was 220-230. I have not hit a 285 yard drive for 30 years! My primary focus is on lower body movement and timing. As a side note about the backswing, if someone wanted to they could literally pick a club up, set it in position at the top, check all the positions, then swing. Couples is a primary example of looking like he lifts the club and places it into position at the top. My point is downswing movement is where everything starts to go haywire for most folks because it's the "let go" part of the swing.
At the top, my club head/shaft position, right elbow, etc, must be in a position to work with, or be in sequence with my lower body initiation. The movement of the lower body and lead leg "post up", when done correctly, creates a "whip action". The snap or "crack of the whip" occurs when my lead hip moves left & up, meaning my lead hip moves up due to lead leg extension. This accelerates the club head at a much higher rate of speed right at the ball. I'm not "snapping" or "jolting" my lower body to start the downswing. It's more of a smooth first movement that is initiated just prior to the club reaching the top which creates a sense of fluidity, kinda like how one's arm and wrist might feel right before snapping a towel.
After my brain finally decided to let my lower body initiate the downswing (this was quite a battle), the ensuing timing of the lead hip movement relative to the club head position, and the timing of the "post up", or extension of the lead leg is the hardest part. However, it's also very exciting because when done right, the feel, sound, and look of my shots are vastly improved. My swing looks relaxed, effortless, and my belt buckle ends up being the closest point of my body to the target upon completing my swing. A few guys yesterday said "it's amazing how far you hit the ball because it doesn't even look like you're swinging hard at all!!!" I'm not swinging hard, I'm simply creating a whip action for which my lower body creates the foundation to "crack of the whip". Many LPGA players are prime examples of employing swings that appear like they're not swinging hard. Nellie Korda is a prime example. Lexi creates a whip action that practically sends her jumping off the ground when hitting a driver. Fred Couples swing looks lazy, almost like he's not exerting much of any energy.
One major point regarding lower body movement is having a connected shoulder driven swing. A lower body initiated swing cannot be properly executed using an arm swing because arm swings are by default disconnected swings. What I mean by being "connected" is the club handle must be moving relative to my lower body movement, thus the position of the club handle needs to be at a certain position right before the lead leg extends, or posts up. This is, for me, is entirely a feel move because it happens too quickly. However, the strike of the ball tells me what I did right or wrong. Did I hit behind the ball or thin the ball? I could have posted up too early, and/or the hands lagged behind (disconnected), or my trail elbow blocked the movement.
From the top, if for whatever reason the club handle "lags" behind and has to catch up to the lower body movement, the sequence fails because the lead leg already posted vs. the lagging hands. I forget where I saw the video but a study was done of tour pro's hand speed during the downswing. Their hands are moving down much faster than amateur hands. The reason is the pro's initiate their lead hip movement earlier than amateurs, often as the club is still reaching the top of their backswing. Therefore, because they have connected swings, their hands likewise move down faster. I now understand why pro's hit lousy shots. It's because their sequencing is miss-timed because it's very hard to time every single swing. See Tom's backswing videos because he clearly shows the connected move on the takeaway which is massively important to achieve the above. This is an absolute MUST.
Another key attribute is the right elbow. Tom's magic elbow video shows the movement, and this is vital to ensure the club can move relative to the hip movement on the downswing. Otherwise, the right elbow can get into a position whereby it gets blocked by the torso on the downswing. Keep in mind everything is happening very quickly so if there's even the slightest "blockage" the timing of the swing is lost. Thus my setup checklist is ball position (from toes and where in the grid), line, then right elbow.
I think lower body separation is the the hardest part to learn in the golf swing because far too many players want to swing with their upper body and arms and thus they chase all kinds of fixes because the real fix is swinging from the ground up, not top down.
As for some good news, the driver is the easiest club to start learning how to initiate the downswing with the lower body because it's a long club, there's more time if you will to feel the movement. Even my chips and pitches have improved because I now initiate those shots with a very slight hip bump that gets the club moving on a much better path.
So now I think "ok hips, let's get that club moving down to the ball and crack the whip". I used to think "ok hands and arms, let's get the club moving down to hit ball". Two completely different approaches.
Thanks for this thread, and your posts @GolfLivesMatter and @Russell Hogue, PhD. I'm new to the forum, but have been watching Tom's videos since early summer as I've gotten back in to golf after 20 or so years away. Saw immediate improvements with the piecemeal tips, but the usual wheels falling off the wagon happened once I started try to get past half swings. I'm really struggling now with the lateral hip movement/hip bump, or lower body initiation. Watching my swing on video, I'm barely moving at all...but my feel is that I'm almost falling over my lead foot with how much weight forward I have just trying to do 60/40, so both your tips on this really help to put things in perspective. I think that lead arm only "slow swing" drill is in my future. I derailed my early progress worrying too much about the swing speed readings I was getting on my Garmin R10 being "low" and have hence, I think returned to upper-body driven ways trying to crush it vs whip it 😑
So today, did the T2T and took the club "outside" on the takeaway. Hit 16/18 greens in regulation. The club path is not really outside, it just feels outside because my inherent move is too far inside. I hit two bad shots because my weight was too far back, or on my trail foot, and as such, hit two pulled shots due to reverse pivots.
The blending of these moves is like being a Michelin 4 star chef creating an entrée. If one ingredient is out of balance, the entire dish is bad. LOL.
Oh buddy, I know exactly what you are talking about and 100% that is a problem I have always fought. In fact, I would say my swing is typically “over the top from the inside.” Meaning, my backswing plane gets too inside and I come over my backswing plane, but I am still attacking the ball from the inside. That’s way different than the hacker move of coming over the top, meaning outside in club path. I like my swing path to be 5 degrees inside out. But I too struggle with getting it underneath and inside and then instead of 5 degrees inside out, I might see 10-12 degrees and that brings the ole hosel rocket into play for sure. Ironically, I use the same fix for this error compared to the outside in fix. I place something right outside and slightly behind the ball with an alignment rod on the outside signifying the swing path I want to see. If my path is too far inside out I will hit the red pad. If the path is correct, it’s a tight draw or a push fade depending on how I preset my grip.
Downswing Initiation with Lead Shoulder
Many folks have issues with their lead shoulder moving laterally to start the downswing. This is a VERY common problem. I see guys all the time. I call them "slingers" because they get to the top then sling the club using their lead shoulder. Basically their lead shoulder is doing what their lower body should be doing. Everything is in reverse. For anyone who has this issue, this must be fixed first because 100% of Tom's downswing teachings will not work. My friend went though this and it requires some effort and experimentation.
To curtail my friends slinging issue, we tried different weight distributions at address to see if the distribution might entice, or curtail lead shoulder lateral drift. As an extreme, we went to 20/80 weight distribution simply to see if at that point the lead shoulder would not initiate the downswing. 20/80 worked, but of course that was not the long term goal. What it did reveal is he should avoid any more than 55/45 weight distribution at address. He was at 65/35 and I think that led to too much weight on his lead side, making it easier for his lead shoulder to become active. I personally believe a lot of folks misunderstand SnT to put too much weight on the lead side. With anything, too much of anything is often not good.
Plus, lead shoulder lateral movement goofs up the club handle path to the ball. If the shoulders initially travel laterally towards the target, then the club handle is also moving laterally vs. a steeper angle of attack. I see guys blading wedges because their lead shoulder moves laterally to start the downswing. If they don't blade, they chunk because the hands are late coming down, so the right hand flips.
Plus, with a lateral shoulder movement from the top, the hands are not dropping nearly as fast as needed. my friend went through this with a pro and found his hands were about 4 inches too high on the downswing arc. Plus, due to the elevated hand position, his lower body stopped moving through the shot because his brain knew his hands were too far behind. Rolling ball effect.
The typical hand speed for tour pros is 24-26 mph. Most golfers are 16 mph, or up to 10 mph slower. The "slinger" will never get near tour pro hand speed, and likely fall short of the average golfer's hand speed.
Keep in mind that all the above may sound like a pretty simple fix, but it's not. The mere fact is a slinger is used to a bunch of other feels, positions, etc, thus even if they keep their lead shoulder back, they may still hit all kinds a crap shots because the rest of their system is designed / timed around slinging, thus the system is even more "out of balance". This is why practicing can be so frustrating because each little area in the swing has it's own history / habits pending other movements.
As an aside, I am a guy who absolutely hates hitting 60* wedges from greenside rough, and NEVER from the fringe. So the other day after a round of golf and 3 martinis, I went out to a green on the course....and....oddly enough....was able to hit all most of those shots that I HATE to hit.
Therefore, I suggest drinking at LEAST two martinis before starting any practice session because in my case, somehow my brain "gave up" and FINALLY let me FRIGGIN hit the dreaded tight lie LW...LOL
I attached a link below to a Rob Cheney video about lower body movement, or slide vs. hip rotation. In the video he uses a water bottle to allow folks to learn what a correct slide should feel like, and look like, if done properly. This is a very simple drill / practice idea.
I did a quick check and found I need about 3-4 inches of lateral movement to knock over the water bottle. But if someone is coming from excessive hip spin outs, those few inches will feel like 5 feet. I recall one of the SnT pro's talking about feeling like his right pocket was passing the ball.
Also in the video he uses GOLFTEC motion sensors that show if certain positions are consistent with tour pro's or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsNgKnDdpRE
@Alan Studnicky As I read your post I had to laugh because we have all been there. In fact, it’s crazy how quickly a person can go from “killing it” to “wheels off”. My plan for this summer is to get video when I am in a “killing it” stretch and put it away as the model swing. I just went through the good, bad and ugly this past week. Went to the range today for the first time to actually work on things, but every time I get off, I go back to the beginning. What are the fundamentals? 1. Low point control. Am I able to hit the ground where I want to? Can I do that on the path where I want to send the ball? Once I can control low point, then really, put the ball in the way. 2. Play with enough power to play a course. No reason to “kill it”. Instead hit the ground on intended target and take an extra club hitting at 70%. I have found that doing those two Things always gets me back on track pretty quickly. The final thing is face control. If I hit the ground on desired path and am not over swinging, what ball shape is happening? It’s super easy to control shape if you can dial back effort and only focus on creating The right spin for high/low, curving left or curving right.
Really good post, @GolfLivesMatter . The wheels have fallen off for me, yet, again. (shanks and/or topping the ball all of the time) And while I usually can make a correction and get back to hitting the ball well this time has been a huge struggle. Taking video, and without it I never would have known, a few things have happened. In my back swing my head is moving towards the target. When did this start to happen? Ugh. Ok, fixed that. Then I noticed at address my head is still forward. Ugh, ok, fix that and now I have a K again. When did that slip away? Next, I've been working on different ways to start the swing - specific muscles, really. Well, this has led to my right leg kicking out. Ok, back to getting the hip bump and getting the hips to move sideways towards the target like on a rail. I also noticed my hand path seems out way too far. I've had a lot of things slip away which has made getting back to a decent swing so hard this time. I also did one arm swings starting with the left arm. I can't hit the ball effectively without the hip bump. Right arm swings, same thing. Still difficult to do but both need the hip bump to work and I could actually hit the ball with my left arm. Wow, pretty cool. So, working on the net at home for all of this, I have my K back at address, head is still, takeaway is with the shoulders, left knee is moving outwards, and if the swing starts with the hip bump towards the target and my right foot doesn't pivot on my toes so the right knee doesn't kick out I can hit the softest feeling shots ever. It's almost like the ball isn't there. But I can only achieve this with the hips sliding towards the target like on a rail - the swing has to start with the hips sliding towards the target. And it all happens so fast sometimes I don't even know what I do. But great post. It got me thinking and working on single arm drills and getting the hip slide back. Next stop is to the range to see if it all transfers there.
This is exactly what I am struggling with, thanks for the tips.
I did a little exercise with a guy who plays decent golf, but simply looks too tense during his swing, and his lower body doesn't initiate his downswing.
The exercise was this: I had him hold a 7 iron with only his lead hand. Then I asked him to take the club halfway back, slowly, with a loose grip and relaxed arm and shoulder. Then I asked him to initiate his downswing with his lower body.
On his first several tries his left arm started first. His upper body clearly didn't want to relinquish any control, and oddly enough, despite the fact the exercise had nothing to do with hitting a ball. Beyond that, his arm looked tense, like he was holding a sledgehammer vs. a 7 iron. He had zero lag on the downswing. And his inclination was to SWING...fast. He couldn't relax.
So then I asked him to relax his left arm and grip...check. I said "this is a 10 mph swing". I also said "the club does not start down until your lower body initiates the downswing". So he took the club back, but this time while the club head was still moving up to complete his half backswing, he initiated his downswing with his lower body. Thus, his lower body engaged BEFORE the club head reached the "top".
The difference was amazing given the club head remained in suspension for a split second (lag), his lead shoulder didn't drift forward, his lower body had separation from his upper body, and the highest speed of the club shaft was at the ball and beyond, not before. Thus he finally got a feel of what I call the "whip action" which IMO is the final frontier of the golf swing. But IMO this enlightenment of feeling can only be discovered with slow, shorter swings, not full swings because unfortunately the upper body has that swing covered for many folks. There's simply "too much history" of upper body controlled full swings.
The interesting aspect about learning the golf swing is full swings inherently mask problems that much slower swings reveal. Thus, IMO this is why the short game is difficult for most players, and why many avoid practicing the short game because it can be very frustrating to look like an idiot who can't control a 15 mph swing. A slow swing reveals a lot of flaws, mainly lack of club head control, bottom point control, and reveals which body part(s) have tension, and when that tension builds.
One other point is this: The whip action movement created by lower body transition as the club head is about to reach the top is a fluid movement. It is not a one, two or worse, multi-step movement that our brains would like to control. It simply happens too fast. My point is there's a huge element of trust required. It's a "let go" moment. Plus, the transition is a relaxed, tension free movement, not a SNAP or TWIST movement.
This is why the pro's, especially the LPGA players appear to have effortless swings. It's also why they can hit 10's of thousands of golf balls and not injure themselves because their fluidity is more akin to tossing a ball to someone vs. throwing a concrete block.
If I don't feel the weight of the club head resisting my lower body transition on the downswing, I know I used my shoulders to hit the ball.
And I was an army drill sergeant for 2 years, no wonder I try to attack the ball, lol
Show us your swing! Dying to see it after reading this lol. need some inspiration
Ok Tom, thank you for your warm welcome and thank you GLM for the book recommendation. It sounds like exactly what I need !
Drill Sargent brain, that's too funny
thanks guys
Wow, GLM, like Tom said ,Excellent Post!!!
I had to laugh when I read the first line of your third
paragraph, When my brain decided to let me.....
I have been battling the brain problem for years.
All my golfing buddies tell me my practice swing is so
smooth and fluid but when I step up to the ball, it becomes
the target by my brain' s command and you guys know how
that works out LOL. It really is good to hear that my overpowering
brain can be trained. I'm glad I found Tom and his unique way of
instructing. I don't have a orange whip, but I do have a training aid
that has a flexible shaft with a large plastic golf ball that slides up and down
the shaft. Maybe that will work. Again Excellent post, Excellent thread.
Thanks guys.
Great thread guys. Leading with the lower body certainly seems difficult. If you simply throw a ball, do you think about it at all? What about if you swing a baseball bat? What about throwing a pass in basketball? I would contend that in golf, it becomes difficult becasue we lose focus on where we are trying to send the ball and hit at the ball…instead of releasing to a target. If hitting at the ball is the target then the lower body does the right thing by stopping at the ball. If you simply swing to a target like throwing a ball then the lower body will lead every time.
I suggest buying an Orange Whip and use that to get the feel of lower/upper body separation. The massive flexing of the shaft gives me time to initiate my lower body movement, and I can hear the increase in sound when done correctly. I rarely hit balls at the range prior to a round now, I just use the Orange Whip, and do so in front of a mirror to see my positions.
Wow well written the one key that really puts it together for me to trigger the start the ground up down swing sequence. I allow my left heel to come off the ground on the back swing and as reaching the top of my downswing that planting of the left heel really gets everything in the correct order. For me it creates better town and allows much better footwork and leg drive. Swing speed jumps up about 10 miles per hour. So I utilize both flat foot I top out about 100 mph woth the driver. Allowing the longer downswing and heel up I currently top out at 110 mph. Stack and Tilt just works.
Thank you @GolfLivesMatter . Beautiful right up and if I didn't know better you were using my swing as the 'anti-swing' :) question. in your statement "....he club handle must be moving relative to my lower body movement, thus the position of the club handle needs to be at a certain position right before the lead leg extends, or posts up. " where would you say the handle position is and when you lead leg extends is the club closer to parallel to the ground.? Thanks again for sharing.
@GolfLivesMatter: "But. You. Can't. Hit. It. Far. With. Stack. And. Tilt." (Said in your best "inner idiot" voice.) All I do is laugh anymore when I hear that BS. On average I'm hitting my drives at least 20 yards longer since switching to S&T from shift & lift. It's all built into the physics and geometry - ANGULAR MOMENTUM!! And therein lies your effortless 285-yard bomb!
"I think lower body separation is the the hardest part to learn in the golf swing because far too many players want to swing with their upper body and arms and thus they chase all kinds of fixes because the real fix is swinging from the ground up, not top down." Yes - you absolutely nailed it there, and if amateurs would truly learn and ingrain this they would hip bump themselves out of the abyss of perpetual frustration, inconsistency, and crappy scores.
Excellent post!!