I am sharing below a copy of a most excellent comment from @quickretirement123 - partly because the "feel" he came across eliminated steepness and grooved his downswing path, and perhaps it may help you as he states in his reason for sharing it - but even more so in the valuable insight he provides with regard to how we each individually must go about taking ownership of our unique swing. As I regularly tell folks, I can provide the road map, but then it’s up to each golfer to take the wheel and drive to their final destination: The Land of Crispy KFC Ball Striking Bliss. That’s what it means to embrace the process – navigating around the bumps, detours, and roadblocks, interpreting the directions in a way that resonates well with your individual uniqueness, backtracking when necessary, ingraining your personalized “feels” to produce a consistent, repeatable motion and a powerful, predictable ball flight, and ultimately garnering much body-friendly enjoyment of this great game for years to come!
Here is his comment (emphases added):
"This is why everyday that passes I do not regret getting on board with this system. Tom makes it more of an individual teaching program and not a 'One size fits all'. This past weekend, I have had a 'aha' moment because I finally figured out (I know, it took me long enough, I'm sure that most people already figured that out) that not every technique/tip applied to me and I think that is why I have been lost for a long time because I have been working on a million things. I finally realized that I had to develop/apply my own 'FEELS' on whatever part of the swing I was learning. For example, I have always had an issue with the downswing, specifically get into the "SLOT".
As recent as last week, I posted a question on this very forum asking for help on this very topic. Then I watched the 'Best Contact Drill' and Hip Lateral training on the site, and it came to me, you CANNOT have a proper/functioning downswing without this key component (Hip moving Lateral prior to Rotate through). While I was working on these moves, I developed my own feels/trigger to make it work for 'ME'. In this case, what worked for me was the rolling inward of the right foot. What this move does, it stopped me from rotating too early into the downswing. Now, I generate so much speed and I feel that consistency will no longer allude me.
One more thing, because I used a mirror and also had a camera for instant feedback, I am able to spend quality time working on the move; and I do not have to wait until weather gets better to go to the range since I can do that indoor. My downswing is now on Autopilot and I cannot wait for the new season.
I share this because this may help someone out there!"
@quickretirement123 - Believe me - your insights will help more than "someone"... 😎
Hello Tom,
After watching your videos I am now keeping my arms straight. I'm left handed and now I'm pushing the ball to the right. According to my Garmin R10 I now have a smash factor of 1.25 and hitting everything right of center. Any helpful tips. Thank you
Also, finding it hard to have perfect consistency on the divot board, but my ball striking has improved quite a bit. Any low handicap golfers have the divot board, and if so do you hit the same spot almost every time (or is that unrealistic)?
Does anyone find an advantage in slowing down the backswing and accelerating through downswing? Was playing with it yesterday on the range and saw some benefit.
Fellow Saguto-ites, I came across a Rob Cheney video that made a huge difference for me in understanding proper trail arm action...much more accuracy and a feeling that more power is coming soon as well! I share it here only to enhance and add to the great information @Tom Saguto already provides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yOZ1iMEFKo
Quick question. Does "ownership" of a swing mean the feels and reals? If the feels and thus the resulting "reals" don't result in a swing that looks very similar to Tom's, then why would I want to own that swing? I would put that swing on Ebay with free shipping! LOL.
Hello everyone, I thank you all especially @Tom Saguto for pointing to my post cause we are all here learning and helping each other. In the same vein of taking ownership, I have come to realization of another discovery on this journey for better golf.
Folks, I cannot tell you how much of a better player I have become because of @Tom Saguto teaching. I used to be a high 80s occasionally low 90s player but now I m consistently shooting in the mid 70s. I know I can be better still. One key component that added to the bag is the hip turn in the backswing that @Tom Saguto promotes in the school and on YouTube. Now while I can hit some powerful shots sometime but I could not effectuate that move consistently. So, I realize that i am not as flexible I once was and maybe my body is not comfortable doing that move the way I was doing it. So, I searched for another video and as it turns out it had nothing to do with the hips as a topic. The video is “HANDS IN ENOUGH”. Doing this move makes the Hip Turn in the backswing automatically. Again, I tried it today and it works FOR ME.
The advice here is to know your body, your limitations (flexibility or even ability). So, many ways to skin a cat as the saying goes. Sorry, if I have offended any animal lover.lol
@Tom Saguto Hey Tom, wouldn’t you agree that you cannot do the Hands In deep enough as you recommend it and not have your hip open in the backswing.
Great share! I'm new to the program and have experienced a few aha moments myself. I like the camera / mirror idea for instant feedback maybe to tie the feel to how it should look? so I can repeat it the next day and not forget! What attracted me to Tom's program is the simplicity of the swing. I've taken a few in person lessons and subscribed to other channels/programs and most of them were overly complicated and they contradicted other things I learned. This program is simple enough where you can go practice the 1-2 videos (for me chest fwd/arm straight & fwd/fwd/fwd videos) and have instant success/feedback.
TJ
@quickretirement123 & @Tom Saguto - thanks for sharing your experience with me and others. I have to find what feels good to me when following S&T. I have almost made the S&T my very own swing. I am just having fun making changes in a positive way after acquiring bad habits over decades. It has changed my previous attitude of being mad all the time to one of expectancy of what great thing will happen next after I hit the ball. The journey continues to crispy shots galore.
Good morning all! Just wanted share something that I discovered on the range and then the course yesterday that seemed, for me at least, to put all of this together.
I was really working on cementing "divot in front of the ball" with a couple different clubs on the range. As per usual, results were OK but not consistent.
Finally, I made sure that my set up was the same each time, concentrated on no head/eye movement during the swing, left shoulder down in the BS, etc. and it go better.
Then for whatever reason, on one swing I felt myself pause ever so slightly at the top...I didn't do anything at that point...just felt the little pause...probably not even perceptible to anyone else who may have been watching.
The result was amazing. I began striping everything from driver to 6i to PW!
As it would happen, a couple buddies were making the turn, so I joined them on the back 9...had 5 pars, 4 bogeys, no 3 putts, 2 1 puts, and experienced the most consistent 9 holes in recent memory! On a couple occasions when I didn't "feel" the pause at the top, the results weren't as good. I think I hit 6 GIR!
Not sure how or if this fits in with @Tom Saguto golf or not, but it really helped me.
Excellent dialogue here, y'all! Thanks so much @quickretirement123, @Ian "Twiggy" Jones, @GolfLivesMatter, @Patrick Anlauf, @Russell Hogue, PhD, and @Ryan M for sharing all this valuable accumulated wisdom!
This definitely hits close to home. I am a recent member and have been taking an ungodly amount of notes on everything on this site as well as YouTube. I have an extremely lengthy (and organized) notes section on my phone with everything I’ve learned from Tom. Even when I make significant progress on the range, I can’t help but get back on the research train right when I get home to learn even more drills/swing mechanics so I can make even more progress faster.
Im trying not to overthink things and just be patient with the process while focusing on the aspects of this curriculum that most apply to me. I had a major breakthrough today on the range doing the 2.8 Drill. I finally felt what it’s like to have the proper wrist hinge at impact and the ball absolutely exploded off the clubface. I had failed to diagnose my main problem, which i now realize was most likely casting (and not coming too far in to out) like I thought. I had this drill in my notes for a while but it just didn’t click until today. And I feel like that’ll probably be the case for a lot of the stuff that I’ve written down.
Im excited to see what Tom says about my first V1 video too.
What also makes golf instruction difficult is people often over-think, get into the weeds vs. relaxing and letting themselves swing the darn club. So many folks see the swing as a series of static positions vs. a free flowing movement. I can almost hear some folks brains saying "ok, the club is here, now get to there...ok...now get here, don't do THAT again". Far too confusing and only adds tension, caution, and frustration.
My old golf coach gave us an example of overthinking. He said the following:
If I laid a 3 foot wide board down that's 100 feet long on the ground, would you be able to walk across the board? No problem. Now if I take that same board and put it 30 stories high between two buildings, would you be able to freely, without thought, walk across that board? Probably not. Some would crawl, others would not try. The reason why is the brain would start to question everything we've known about walking, like where the feet are (don't trip), do the knees come up lower or higher, which foot do I start with? LOL.
This is why IMO the practice range is the "board on the ground" and the course is "the board 30 stories high". The only thing that changed was perception in terms of "now it counts", "pass fail", "don't mess up". Otherwise same legs, board, and movement we've done since being 2 years old.
@quickretirement123 Really great comments. Feels can get people through a round. Sometimes they last for an extended period of time, sometimes, they last for a couple swings. :) There are no right answers. Many of the best players have absolutely no idea about the mechanics behind the golf swing, they know what they feel and they have played well enough to match up feelings to results. There’s nothing wrong with that approach if it works. At the same time that’s what makes golf instruction really difficult. So many coaches explain the golf swing based on feels which are subjective. That means two coaches can give exactly opposing descriptions but each feeling could work. If we look at video of pro golfers we see all kinds of different passes. However, from waist high to waist high all of the moves look incredibly similar. To me, that means we are looking for a way to move the club so that it shows up, from waist high-to-waist high, in the same positions as the best golfers. The waist high-to-waist high positions are a bi-product of the moves that came before and CAN be different and with almost complete certainly WILL have different feels for different golfers. For me, the value in a system like Stack-n-tilt is that the positions are prescriptive. With video work it becomes an easy way to match up feels and see how you have to feel to make the club show up. In my opinion, using a mirror, using video, it’s the only way to learn if you aren’t one of the lucky people who learned with the old-fashioned teaching methods. I would assume that pretty much applies to everyone here. If we were legit scratch golfers who had learned another way to move the club then we wouldn’t be here. So, here’s to all of the slow-pokes in the forum…we may be slow, but our journey is gonna be fun. It’s going to be more rewarding than our friends who happened to find their path from traditional instruction. Once we can match up our feels to make the club show up in s&t positions, we will own our swings. The best part about it is, we also have a blueprint so that when things get “off”. With a little video work we should be able to find out way back. Well, that’s my theory and I am sticking with it. :)
Kick pride in the head and wake up to what one is doing wrong. I agree with you, GolfLivesMatter. I don't have time with gimmicks (Golf Magazine has given me my share) but do have time for fundamentals and correcting deeply ingrained habits. Behavioral Scientists say it takes 3 weeks to acquire new habits and I am headed in that direction.
I cannot count how many times I've been on the range or course with someone who said they are working on, say, using the shoulders to rotate the club to the top, but in reality they turn their shoulders about half way back then arm-swing the club to the top, with the club almost resting on their shoulder at the top. The odd part is they believe otherwise. In their minds they look like Justin Thomas or whomever they are trying to mimic as an example at the top, but sadly they look like just another guy in a long line of countless guys who struggle to engage their shoulders to complete their backswing.
Then the guy in the above example will have a few bad rounds. He will believe "something else" is wrong because he believes he looks like Thomas at the top. Thus, the foundation has not been "poured and cured" yet he'll be off to some other swing fix. They will get into something else like "pulling the club down" or "increasing lag" or the introduction of swing killing manual manipulations during what should be a fluid movement.
And for some guys I know, it seems like their final graveyard is moving to Moe Norman's swing for "simplicity"...and power...because that's "Bryson's swing". There's a guy who has been working on this method for weeks now. I watched his swing the other day. Nothing like Norman's or Bryson's swing. But he swears it is...LOL. People seem to want to see, or filter-out what they don't want to see.
Also, the random nature of golf scores can lead one to believe some gimmick "worked" if they have a a good round. They don't realize their good score was coincidental to their "improvements" and not a direct "cause and effect". They forget they made 4 long putts, and had a chip in from 40 yards, escaped a bunker that they normally need two shots to get out, etc. I call it "slot machine golf". After sitting at a slot machine for hours. suddenly coins start dropping! Then they think "the machine is HOT!". Then after 200 more pulls all the winnings are gone.
Great post!
I've been a member for a year and I've seen major improvement after trying so many different feels and tips that it's just a matter of time when they all come together. But as you say, it's what works best for you.
We're all different in regards of what were physically capable of and also how we learn and put into practice what we learn.
Tom does a great job of covering all the bases with various different tools. It's just a matter of practice, patience and perseverance to find your own "swing feels" that gets you hitting KFC crispy golf shots!
@Tom Saguto - Thank you for the recognition Tom- If it does help anyone, I think I have done my job which is to pass it forward. And this is not patronizing when I tell you, that this is all of because of your attitude and approach at teaching and passing on this invaluable information. You know, not to be philosophical or anything, this game has a way of showing you who you are dealing with.