How many times has anyone run into someone who said they "tried" S&T and it "didn't work"? And to that extent, how many times are those the same guys who are constantly struggling to break 90 with their traditional swing? The irony is they think "their swing" works for them, they just need "one more fix". To that extent, how many of them actually bought the S&T book? How many actually took S&T lessons from an S&T instructor? How many of them probably didn't want to put the time into learning a bunch of new feels. or maybe having to forget everything they believed to be true?
I'm in full-immersion mode with S&T and have been for about 4 months, playing nearly every day. I just joined Tom's site. I also bought the S&T book and watched a LOT of Rob Cheney videos who is also an excellent teacher. Thus when I ask the guys mentioned above to show me what "didn't work" with S&T, or to explain or demonstrate the S&T swing, it's clear they had very little knowledge of the swing. But then again, if I ask those same guys to demonstrate the "traditional" swing, they have no idea about that swing either. They will explain the concepts, but when put to action they cannot replicate the movements. Therefore, they prefer to hit endless balls on the range and never improve, while for me, S&T feels like I'm cheating...LOL.
There's one major benefit to the traditional swing.....billions of dollars in club sales because when all hope is lost, why not buy new irons or woods to see if there's a chance of some magical improvement? Plus, now folks spend $$$ on fittings because the idea is if they were simply "properly fitted" they would play "much better". Fittings are interesting because the majority of folks being fitted are constantly tinkering with, adjusting, and/or employ highly variable swings. Therefore, "today's" fitting won't match "tomorrow's swing". In reality, they're being fitted to a flawed swing. I enjoy out-driving folks who just bought a $500 driver with my old Ping G20 that's scratched on the top. The funny thing is the guys with the new drivers don't ask me if they can hit my G20....hmmm....why? Maybe they don't want to know they could have spent $100 on an older driver if they had a good S&T swing...LOL.
KFC crispy to all!!! Great stuff Tom!!!
Yeah, I think in the future I will say "nice S&T swing you got there!" and let them travel into the Twilight Zone trying to demonstrate that their swing is NOT S&T! LOL.
What a tremendous strategy for taking down an opponent's, @GolfLivesMatter - just tell him that he's doing S&T and watch his head explode like an Austin Powers fembot. Well played!! š
Yes - plenty of top players transfer pressure to the trail side without ever shifting, but they're back into their front side by the time they get to the top. Even Hogan did that. https://youtu.be/GYRCd7WMoSI
TS
The funny thing is I've played with guys who ask me the same question about S&T, good players. But when I watch their swings they, OMG, stack over the ball at the top. Next, while they may perform a weight shift on the takeaway, their weight actually shifts to their lead foot as their backswing nears the top...same as S&T. Thus, the process of how they get to the top is slightly different for the first half of their backswing, but in reality they end up at the same position at the top.
During one round I said to one of the guys who questioned my S&T swing, "you know you're actually doing a 90% S&T swing". He said "No I'm not". So I shot a video of his swing and one of mine. He actually said "you're swing looks the same". Then I pointed out that he probably likes the initial feeling of a weight shift to the trail foot because for some that promotes a feel of fluidity, then pointed out that his left knee clearly indicated his weight had shifted to his lead side at the top. He ended up playing worse because he was perplexed that he may be doing the "dreaded" S&T swing after all. LOL.
If you want to see a swing that has a slight shift to the trail side on the initial takeaway, go to the below link and watch Luke Donald hitting balls. You will see an initial weight shift to his trail foot, not a lot, but as the club reaches the top he looks exactly like Charlie Wi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIzGOf2zbgc
I played with a 5 HC yesterday who I havenāt seen or played with in a few months and he grinned saying āare you still sticking with that stack and tiltā ?? Hes got no idea about the swing or system and travels 45 mins to get lessons with a teacher who advises him to shift weight. His handicap is moving in wrong direction. On the whole itās very hard to change peoples perceptions. Everyone lives in their own head so in a way itās a shame to see his view He references Golf Digest articles and crazy tilts (where there is no extension to stay centred) ā¦. What can you do but just let them crack on in the rabbit hole of golf swing that exists outside of the S&T system š just glad I discovered by fluke a S&T teacher here in the UK
@GolfLivesMatter THIS! I think this may be the best post I have read on the forum. I am way behind you from a timing perspective, but same boat. I have decided to go full immersion and have heard the sameā¦either S&T didnāt work or some comment about loading the right side. Those comments are always from the terrible golfers and my comments arenāt as nice as yours because I have no problem telling them, āLetās be honest, your current move isnāt working either, what did you shoot, 85?ā
Quick story. I've been driving the ball like a madman (good) lately with S&T, wrath of all the Greek Gods!
So a guy I was playing with yesterday asked me what I've changed. I said it's easy, just do S&T. He said "oh, I tried that and ended up with a reverse pivot". I said "let's see your swing". So he sets up and executes his conventional swing and reverse pivoted. I said "you reverse pivoted". He said "yeah, but I'm working on weight transfer". Sadly, he's still caught in the "load the right side" vortex of disaster and as such he continues the never-ending struggle of trying to shift his weight to his lead foot.
Great comment about getting fitted into ātodays swingā and not for an improved swing. The amount of people I speak to that get fitted into upright clubs is so sad. Upright clubs may look good on a lie board in a golf shop, but good luck being consistent in the long run. Iām a chronic handle lifter, so theoretically upright clubs would be perfect for me, but that is just a band aid for poor action, so I actually did the opposite and had all my irons bent 3 degrees flat and MADE my swing fit the club. Hogan played clubs 6 flat for a reasonā¦ā¦ā¦
Great post, @GolfLivesMatter, and welcome to the school! I've enjoyed our interaction on the YT channel, and I'm very glad to now see you here in the Forum where I know you will be a valuable contributor!!
I'll go ahead and pin your post so more folks can see it and perhaps chime in.
Tom
Fittings only make sense upon having a fairly repeatable swing...and a good overall swing....then I get it. S&T is easy, but it requires constant maintenance, attention to fundamentals in order to overcome the old habits.
I went and got āfittedā for new clubs last year. It was literally hit a few in the sim and the salesman asked me if I liked them. I was always thought fitting was just to make sure shaft length was correct and thatās it. Good to hear S and T is working for you as well. Itās helped my game a lot!