Rant Alert. Sorry! Hey ST team, as many posters in this forum I am getting discouraged. I have ordered a tripod and will be sending @Tom Saguto a V1 as soon as it arrives. I need the teachings of the samurai master! I know I've only been at it for about 10 days, but I am putting in minimum 1 hour per day, sometimes 2+. I've also followed much of this teaching on youtube the last 18 months or so, and I truly believe this makes sense. I was even a member in January but really got down on it fast. But if this truly is the easier way to swing the club, it seems like it's just as hard or harder even to get down. I totally realize that I am not doing the motion correctly via my own videos, but how DO I get the motion correct. I could seem to figure out how to hit 1 out of 5 shots okay the old way, with the golf digest tips and now. But now I seem to be getting no where and in fact getting worse. With the ol' shifter over the top flip at least I could hack around 105 - 110, now I am scared to play, I'm not even sure I can get the ball in the air 1 out of 5 times. @danny mentioned not caring about being embarrassed posting, so maybe I'll follow that mind set! I am focusing on the 90% drill and just trying to go knee high. I've got a mirror going and alignment sticks set up to trace my path, doing it in mega slow mo and I check on video and somehow I'm just going in the over the top direction. Skulling 50 foam balls a day is not good for my mental health LOL. I know how good hitting the centre of that face with the ball first feels, and I'm just not feeling it. The lack of a conscious release is very foreign, and I feel like I'm presenting 2 iron loft to the ball with a pitching wedge. I feel like it should be illegal to practice with a PW too, I think anyone can square that thing up no matter what.
I see the success stories, and am inspired by Tom's own story. I am not naive enough to think I will go bang out a 75 in two weeks, but as mentioned I think I have yet to do it right. All the videos I've taken I can tell you for sure I've never hit a ball from the "happy zone" despite every over the top fix I've seen. I'm still grinding everything, but I just wanted to hear from some other 110 shooters out there, did you persevere? Is this the way? Will it all click and I'll be like oh i really wasn't getting the shoulder down enough. Maybe it's down TOO much? Somebody tell me they went from 120 to 90. My best round last year was 97 and it was a fantastic day for me so much fun with the boys. I'm not looking to be a pro, I just want to tell my wife some happy stories in stead of sad ones when I get home!!
@Tom Saguto I was interested in your recent video where you gave yourself a lesson, your swing looks way more traditional than I'm used to seeing from your other videos. Just a question is that an older swing or recent?
Just a shout out to end on a positive note, I think the content here is awesome, and I've been a member of three other teaching sites. One in particular I cancelled after like two days when the first video course is essentially SWING AS HARD AS YOU CAN BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING. I was also a member of one that is probably the most high profile and it's the worst instruction I've ever seen. This is far and above the most thoughtfully laid out, progressive way too learn a swing I've seen. I'm blaming the student and not the teacher for my lack of success. I also want to say the community has been awesome already. So that is very helpful. Can't wait for the tripod so I can get a real analysis on what to work on!
Regarding the trail elbow, I really only think about the Magic Elbow move in Tom's Hogan video for which my position is nearly identical to Wi's. All I want is that elbow to point more down than flex out, that's really about it. I have tried the tees under armpit drill and I find it's too confining. Again, just look in a mirror to see the positions, then move around to mimic other positions to see AND understand (absorb) how those positions feel too.
You called Tom " the colonel"...... That is a perfect nickname for him.
Can I use it ?? LOL.
First of all, thanks everyone for the helpful comments. About 2 days ago I would have filled the local pond with a beautiful Titleist driver, Taylormade irons and a couple of cleveland wedges. I probably would have kept the putter for putt putt though. I have reviewed and spent an hour in front of the mirror no club on the fundamentals, with many things missed. I believe I might be one of the few beginners who are TOO connected, eg I had my elbow to arm pit Gorilla EPOXIED to my sides. I focused more on the armpit area. Another helpful comment on a swing video regarding tilting and extending on the downswing. Totally just hucking the old shoulders around and hoping for the best.
I told myself today would be a no club only body motion, but of course we cannot help ourselves, and I tried a few swing. In life, I am a vegetarian, but I will tell you, I tasted crispy bacon for the first time. Someone had commented, when you do it right, it is effortless, and I finally felt that for a few swings. Yes little half swings, but I will not rush, but I think THINK I finally know what Tom "The Colonel" is cooking in the krispy kitchen. More to come.
I cannot stress enough that mirror work is vital to learning S&T because the feels vs. reals are going to be a challenge to overcome if someone is coming from a shift and lift swing. The DWTS dancers train in front of mirrors constantly because their feels vs reals get off-track also, so seeing themselves in real-time and connecting the visual with the movement is key, at least for me. I use windows, mirrors, golf cart windshields, etc all the time. I can hit balls on the range but the mirror work better engrains the movement with feeling so I can see I'm actually NOT tilted to the left at the top, just properly stacked. But coming from Shift and Lift I feel titled because I'm used to being on my right side with a flatter shoulder backswing.
Well, you've came to the right place to learn the easiest swing to quickly learn. When Im giving new golfers advice ( and im no expert by any means) is, focus on #1 keep weight on you front foot throughout the swing. Most golfers start with the weight on left foot but loose focus and shift their weight because they're thinking about other swing thoughts.
#2 keep your left arm straight all the way past contact. Most golfers start with arms straight on the backswing but its a completely different feeling to have a straight lead arm on the downswing and at contact. I love left arm only swing drills.
#3 loose the tension in your arms. you have to let the weight of the club naturally extend out to the ball. Most golfer have tight/strong arms and they loose the starting radius of their swing in the downswing.
Tom has a video for every problem your having. Practice 1 at a time. Do not practice 10 things at once. Practice with half PW swings until your making solid contact. then ramp it up a little but, my advice is, not do full swings for a while. Play with 3/4 max swings until you really understand it. I still dont swing 100 %.
Embarassed??? I recently played in a tournament (Yeah...it was bad. Everything I had learned went out the window that day. I still had fun but it deflated my expectations and my confidence. lol) and I couldn't hit nothing. Not even a 200 yard drive. I usually shoot in the 80s. I broke 80 a few rounds since I had been a Saguto student. If you need to take a break from swinging a club, Tom recommended a book for his students on the mental game, FEARLESS GOLF by Gio Valiante. Great book to get you in the right mind of golf while you're learning the mechanics. We know you have enough on your plate to work with and just work it piece by piece and put it all together.
Frustration loves company so here’s some empathy so you’ll know it’s not just you. I’ve been hitting the ball pretty good lately and my swing’s been looking pretty good. Yesterday I realized I’ve been getting the club sucked behind me so I started working on fixing that problem. Well almost immediately everything I hit was on the toe, a shank or super fat. It’s like a Rubik’s cube. I matched up one side but the other five is all jacked up. It’s really frustrating right now but I know it will eventually end up being the difference between hitting the ball “pretty decent” like I have been and hitting the ball AWESOME when it all comes together. I too will definitely be sending in a V1 session myself very soon. I think of learning the golf swing as kind of a two steps forward, one step back kinda thing. All things considered though, I’m still playing better than I ever have. That’s what’s giving me the patience and faith in the system. It’ll eventually work out. Just keep working.
Nothing to be embarrassed about man. I shot a 111 last weekend. This takes time (and I am speaking to myself as well). I joined a few months back and I have had my share of ups and downs. We want it all to happen overnight and that just isn’t going to happen. I will agree with some of the others about the tension free swing. When I focus on just my shoulders turning and have relaxed (dead) arms, the swing just feels so free. What I have also found that helps, is finding a golfing buddy who understands what you are trying to do. That has helped me tremendously on the course. Sharing a round of 9 or 18 with someone who can encourage you after your fifth topped shot in a row just gives you the confidence to keep pushing through! Follow the course as Tom prescribes and you’ll be just fine!
Thanks all!! Love the vibe from the community here. Good to know there will be light at the end of the tunnel if we stay the course. It’s like they said don’t do it until you get it right, do it until you can’t get it wrong !
Lot of support from Saguto golfers! Tim, you'll get it and you'll be amazed how your golf game will change for the better. Give it time!
My advice? DO NOT clutter your mind with too many swing thoughts! It's a process..master one move at a time. Most people (me included) want too much progress without solidifying the basics. The less you have to think about , the better you strike the ball. Get your mind out of the way and you will see your capabilities
Hi Tim,
I've been on this course for 6 months now and where I saw immediate success with the shorter clubs, it has been the full 6 months to see some progression with the longer clubs. Keep at it though as it will come.
From my experience I'll share a few tips which may help:
Tension kills - This is so true. Don't grip too tight or have too much tension in your arms. "Give up control to gain control" is a great phrase to remember
Check your set-up - I found I had crept the ball back further in my stance than I thought which prolonged success with the longer clubs. The set-up is 95% of your golf swing. Get this wrong to begin with and you're doomed from the start.
Swing thoughts - Get rid of them all, chuck them in the trash and incinerate them! For me, I tried loads of different thoughts for my backswing and downswing. What I found to work for me on my backswing was to concentrate on the folding of the trail arm. With no tension that helps me get into the slot and my body tilts, turns and extends and my shoulder points to the ball.
Have small goals - Try to work on one thing at a time or even one club at a time. Can you do all the fundamentals? Shoulder down, weight forward, arms straight, butt tucked in, hips moving laterally? Build in these one step at a time. They are hard to get down but when you do, it is so rewarding.
V1 - As you've mentioned, get a V1 analysis from @Tom Saguto they are worth their weight in gold. Highly detailed and insightful and a direct plan for you to improve. They'll also answer the questions of the fundamentals and set-up.
Short game - Although we're learning a new swing, don't neglect your short game. 50% of your shots will be from 50 yards and in. The swing will help your long game but you can incorporate it into your short game to see even more shots come off that scorecard! We all want to smash the big dawg into the stratosphere but you have to get your short game down too.
Track your progress - Download a golf app and keep track of your scores. Just play 9 holes for now and use them as "measurables." Forget what others may think of you on the golf course. I've been there too and I just kept working hard to get to a point where I'm optimistic heading to the course.
These helped me but they wont be for everyone. We all learn new skills differently and we have this awesome school, teacher and forum to help us adapt it to suit our specifics.
3 years ago, I was playing of 5.5 and now I'm currently playing off 10.8. I broke 40 the other day for the first time in over 250 days and I was ecstatic. We're climbing a mountain but take one step at a time and the view is KFC crispy when you get there!
@Tim Buhler This is all too common. We, here at Saguto Golf, know and understand your frustration. Golf will make you or break you by brining out the worse and the best in you. I can't think of any other sport that does that. You're going through the stages of a caterpillar to a butterfly. Especially, when it comes to learning new golf swings. I can go on and on with my personal experiences and battles with my game. I wanted to quit learning stack n tilt teachings and just go back to the traditional swing several times. I even wanted to quit golf and travel 40 miles away to an ice rink and stick with playing hockey, which I am good at, instead. But no...I won't quit. This system works. Give yourself time to grow. If you're taking on a lot at once with drills, break it down. Stick with a working plan.
Send in your V1 video to Tom. He will point you into the right direction and giving you many of is online classes for references. There isn't a day that goes by without a golf club in my hand. Upon returning from a weeks vacation without playing at all, I feel reset to face golf again. Sometimes taking a day off or 2 from practicing or golfing helps to reset. Allowing yourself to absorb what you had learning. Perhaps just reviewing videos and tips over and over again until something clicks. I do this all of the time. I had not sent Tom my video yet. I'd been doing alot of self diagnosing with mirrors and other tools for feedback. Get your video in to Tom. In the meantime, hang in there! This is golf. Have fun with it! I will add more later. I got to run for now...
Johnny Pfist
I graduated to a regular. Woohoo!!
I’ll keep mine short, well, sort of. This June is my one year anniversary here. And in the beginning I got far worse. I got so bad I couldn’t play on a course and would not go on a course. I almost gave up but Tom talked me off the ledge. I think my rant back then might have been longer than yours. Not sure. lol
I have been shooting 110 plus first 3 times out this year. Last golf outing – front 9 – shot a 47. Back 9 it blew up and I almost threw my clubs in the lake – literally – Lake Michigan was right there. Since then I learned what I was doing wrong and why it fell apart. Wasn’t obvious then but it is now.
That’s the point – this takes time, longer than I want – that is for sure, but it’s coming around. I can fix it when it breaks. When I hit it right I know why and I can repeat. The golf swing is effortless when done correctly. I’m feeling it more and more. I get better, improve, then take a few steps back. It happens all the time and I'm surprised no one around me has died when my swing blows up (in fact I think my golf buddies are staying away from me right now from the last outing ). But I can tell you with all of the steps back I’m way further down the road had I never taken Tom’s classes.
Last weekend played 12 holes in twilight. Most relaxed golf I have ever played (did not keep score). I made at least 4 pars. I overshot a couple of greens because my distance is getting longer. My driver was awful, though. But, I think I am homing in on that, too. First rule with the driver, wider stance. That is from day 1. Oops, forgot. Yes, there is a lot too a golf swing. But, compared to the typical swing out there this is easier. Is learning this easy? No, of course not. If it was easy we’d all be playing in the 60s and Tom would be out of a job.
So, yeah, been at it for one year and I’m still working at it. Even over the winter I did the indoor class and started with the grip. Yep, had that wrong, too, even though I thought I had it right.
@Tim Buhler - Believe it or not, my first swing that I was reviewing in yesterday's video was not too terribly long ago. The gravitational pull of past shift & lift motions is a force to be reckoned with, and complacency, lack of focus, or - in my case at that time - just not having any availability to do the occasional maintenance range session, opens the door for those ghosts of swings past. Of course, I was also quite critical of that swing during the analysis video. It wasn't terribly far off - and it was playable (though with a big sweeping draw and occasional overdraw) - but as I would do with any low handicap student, there was nitpicking and adjusting to be done in order to reign in the path and ball flight.
In addition to the V1 - which, as you say and I wholeheartedly agree - is most definitely the first order of business when that tripod arrives, I just want to make sure that you've taken sufficient time to nail down all the foundational elements of the setup in Chapter 1, followed by working yourself gradually through each of the body motion lessons in Chapter 2 and not moving on until each incremental lesson is locked in. The chapters, lessons, and drills that comprise the Golf Swing Simplified course curriculum are not randomly ordered; they are designed to be taken sequentially from the beginning. Regardless of a member's skill level, this swing necessitates a complete reboot for someone transitioning from a shift & lift swing (which is typically the case), and therefore it is imperative that one take sufficient time to ensure that the fundamental components of these first couple of chapters are mastered. From the ground up there is nothing superfluous in the Stack & Tilt swing - in other words, everything with a purpose, and a purpose for everything. I cannot emphasize this enough, as frustrations permeate when students jump ahead in the curriculum without properly dedicating themselves to the foundational base upon which our swing must be built.
Beyond that, from recent posts and threads you can easily see who many of the more active folks are in this great and very supportive community. You've already tagged @danny, who I'm certain will chime in . Feel free to reach out to some of the others as well, as each of them has a unique experience to share. And yes - there will be stories of frustrations overcome, ongoing struggles and challenges, bumps in the road, setbacks, rescuing themselves from the ledge, etc. After all, this is golf!.... 😎 (I'll tag just a few "regulars" here for starters, but there are plenty more for sure: @Buford T Ogletree, @johnpfistnerjr, @Alan Studnicky, @desmondmoss, @Ian "Twiggy" Jones, @GolfLivesMatter, @Cody McDowell, @ihmpadre, @Nocona Colt Abernathy, @mpandichjr)
Do not lose heart. You will get through this. With 1) this community, 2) the abundance of lesson, drill, and swing fix content in the school, 3) regularly scheduled V1 Analyses, and 4) your dedication to the process and your work ethic, failure is simply not an option!
HI Tim,
One long rant provokes another! 🤣
So, I started this course back in November and I was an awful golfer. I get a good shot here and there but, it was really just luck. My first round in many years was in august and I shot a 120. Soon after trying this course I started getting the ball in the air but still really inconsistent but, I got my game down to around 100 and actually scored a 94 by the end of the season in January. But, I still wasn't striking the ball well I was just kind of getting straighter more often. So, Winter break came and I made a huge mistake of not videoing my swing and I just completely built in some really bad moves. I finally got my 2nd V1 analysis and tom identified what I was doing and improvement was immediate. So, I no longer swing very long without video.
So the first thing that came to me was learning how to strike through the ball and not hitting at the ball. This is the first big obstacle I needed to overcome and its HUGE! This is why the practice swing is so much better than the strike swing. I finally learned what it's like to strike through the ball by focusing on a spot, on the ground, about 4 inches in front of the ball. I realized, when swinging without a ball, I was looking at the ground and the club seemed to be coming into contact with the ground where I was looking. So, I figured, "why don;t I look at the ground, in front of the ball as, that's where I'm supposed to be coming into contact with the ground." It worked for me! It takes some time and some trust but, it worked.
So, great, I could swing through the ball and things got a bit better. I still wasn't getting much distance and it was till a struggle. Then, one day, playing 9 on my own, a started getting my hips involved. This was HUGE aah ha moment. I was able to step up to the ball with no tension or worry and just take a swing by getting the hips going first, at least that's how it felt. I shot a 44 that day and my yardages jumped like 30 yards with my irons. So, I've had a couple good 9 hole rounds since then one a 45 and one a 43. However, I'm still getting the 100ish rounds. Like shooting a 50 and a 50 and a 99 over 18. But, I'm having so, much more fun because I'm getting some really nice ball flight on a decent number of shots. I don't get too upset with junk shots because I'm more occupied with what I did wrong in the swing than thinking about the result of the shot. I've also come to realize that, a bad tee shot can be over come by a simple recovery and a good 3rd shot. Bogies are a success for me at this stage but, I'm getting more and more pars with a rare birdie.
Tom has pulled me off the ledge a couple of times. Especially when I started back up after the winter break. Thank goodness! Right now I'm the golfer I used to say I'd be happy to be able to play like. When I take a 7 iron and get 170 yards total or a 4 iron 200 yards total I'm making shots that I never thought possible! And their coming more regularly! I also know that my 50, 9 hole scores are short game related with 3 putting or volleying chips over the green. Once I get that stuff dialed in better my scores are going to come down more consistently. I can't tell you how many birdie puts have become bogies on my score card... Or driving 60 yards from the green with a 240 or 250 yard drive only to thin it into the woods or just up and over, twice... ugh. That's happening way less too. Chipping from the fringe with an 8 iron like a putter has also been a big benefit.
Stay with it, I went from wonder why the hell I even bother playing because it was a miserable experience and I never left the course happy I played and found relief in the fact that the torture was over. I knew what a good shot felt like because I'd get one or two a round and those were just awesome! But 1 or 2 good holes around 110 miserable shots was simply not worth my time. Now, I can't wait to play the next round and I'm usually leaving the course wanting to play more.
Anyway, I hope maybe you can find some encouragement in here.
Stay with us! We'll all be getting better together! One day we'll a Saguto tournament!
Danny